[Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

[Dale]

No problem, John.  Black-and-white words don't convey inflections or
emotions attached as everyone well knows.  Like I noted, once you get past
the Off/On function, my electrical skills go downhill pretty fast. LOL.  I
know both solenoids still must be in a functioning capacity but my take on
the Ford solenoid 'solution' is to take some burden off the GM one in a hot
start situation.

I draw an analogy similar to using relays to energize headlamps, electric
fans/fuel pumps, etc. where the end item still has to be able to function
and it's a matter of how the energy gets there to make it function.  It's
all pretty much Greek to me and there are numerous solutions to the hot
start problem.

I used the Summit kit for a couple of reasons other than the hot start
problem.  One, I could 'bump' the engine over with a bumper switch by using
the connections on the remote solenoid and two, I wired the R terminal
connection to a junction block so I could disconnect it at the block instead
of on the GM solenoid whenever I needed to drop the starter; the battery
cable was easy enough to get to to take off/on when working on the starter
but the R post was tight and my running it to a junction block I could leave
it on the GM solenoid all the time and simply disconnect/connect it at the
junction block when needed.

Dale McIntosh
ChevelleCD.com
ChevelleStuff.com


-----Original Message-----
From: chevelle-list-bounces at chevelles.net
[mailto:chevelle-list-bounces at chevelles.net] On Behalf Of John Nasta
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:08 AM
To: chevelle-list at chevelles.net
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] starter & starter wiring

Hi Dale,

Thanks for the links and please understand that I was not trying to 
criticize you. All I'm saying is that with either wiring method, the 
original solenoid still has to work. Otherwise you are just passing 
current to a switched point where the switch is dead. The Nova sites' 
method really accomplishes nothing, because all the first solenoid 
does is pass the current along as if you had it hooked up the old way. 
So, you pass 12V to the BAT and S terminals on the starter, and if 
you're lucky your starter will work as normal after that.

With the Summit/MAD way, you at least eliminate the small wire(s) at 
the starter. Those wires often get burned and they are another thing 
to deal with from under the car when changing a starter. With the 
Summit/MAD way, you jumper from the BAT terminal to the S terminal on 
the starter so that as soon as current is passed to the BAT terminal 
it also goes to the S, but w/o as much length of small-gauge wire. As 
we know, DC current doesn't travel well over long thin wires. Also 
with this method, the large battery cable from the solenoid to the 
starter is dead unless the solenoid is activated. This is kind of nice 
because if your large cable does burn, at least you don't short out 
the battery (until the next time you try to start it). Also you can 
drop the starter w/o disconnecting the positive battery-to-solenoid 
cable, which is one less thing to have to do when changing a starter.

With either method, the original solenoid still has to work though.

This statement from MAD:

> The problem occurs because the large solenoid on
> the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to
> "START."   And that large amount of current must flow through a very
lengthy
> circuit, from the battery to the dash area.  Through dash wiring and
> switches, back out through the under-hood wiring, finally to the starter.

is not true. The whole point of the solenoid is that it is an 
electromagnetic switch. The switch itself draws much less current than 
the starter motor. The switch is also not electrically connected to 
the starter motor. That is why it can be serviced via a smaller wire. 
A small amount of current goes from the battery, through the ignition 
switch and the neutral safety switch to activate the electromagnet in 
the solenoid, which closes the circuit to allow the 12V that is coming 
through the big cable to get to the starter motor. "That large amount 
of current" does not travel through the dash. If it did, you would 
need a cable as fat as your battery cable passing through your dash, 
and you would need heavy duty ignition & neutral safety switches. You 
also would not need the fat cable going directly from the battery to 
the starter. The only thing that passes through the dash is the small 
amount of current that it takes to operate the solenoid (switch).

I see no benefit from the Nova sites' method. The MAD/Summit way at 
least cuts down on the length of small-gauge wire and keeps that wire 
away from the heat. It also makes the big lead to the BAT terminal 
dead unless the solenoid is activated, which can be handy.

Remember that either way, the solenoid on the starter has to work. 
Otherwise you are just passing current to an open switch. The MAD kit 
comes w/ a small plate to jumper the BAT & S terminals, which may 
conduct more amperage or be less susceptible to heat than wire. There 
is a limit to what size wire you can get to fit on those small 
terminals.

HTH,
John








  _____  

avast! Antivirus <http://www.avast.com> : Outbound message clean. 


Virus Database (VPS): 071027-0, 10/27/2007
Tested on: 10/28/2007 11:14:25 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.